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#101 Ice Baby1

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 02:52 AM

That's a really great video. What a character! The bit about the tapestries is super interesting - a much closer parallel to games than I knew existed: an entire scene of artists have already had to feel the impact of their maximum resolutions changing before their eyes. And subsequent annihilation of that art, including misfired attempts to recapture the earlier magic. My mom is really big into knitting and the other day it occurred to me, while we were talking about it, that she spends about as much time in a day thinking in terms of pixels as a professional pixel artist does.

 

Okay, I finished the video and wow, definitely going to be coming back to this one a lot over the next coupla years!!



#102 GoldFishBoy

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:07 AM

Utterly fascinating watching that old dude rambler about something he's so knowledgeable and passionate about. Beautiful video, thank you for sharing it.

 

It got me thinking about like, what it is that gives those older, less precise forms of media the charm they have. And I think it's that they have to be kind of symbolic, in a sense. Like, it might take a ton of skill and creativity to paint a perfectly realistic old man, but it doesn't take any creativity to look at and consume that art, I guess, if that makes sense. It's just an old man. When things are less precise, the painter can't just paint an old man, they have to paint a symbol that the viewer can recognize as an old man, and that transaction takes creativity by both the painter and the viewer to do.

 

It reminds me a little of looking at drawings done by children, sometimes you can tell what they're supposed to be, sometimes you just have no idea at all, but it's still something though. There might be bits and pieces of things you recognize, or you might even have to do some serious leaps of logic and try and put yourself into the place of a kid and think about why they might have drawn what they did in order to put the puzzle together.

 

The idea of technological progress nullifying a medium's ability to evoke the feelings produced by the limitations of older technology doesn't sit well with me though. Stranger Things doesn't feel exactly like an 80's show, and that's fine I think, because it's not an 80's show. We have hd cameras now, we have computer generated special effects, we an extra 3 decades of cinematic history to derive inspiration from, we have modern acting techniques, etc etc etc. It's impossible to completely limit yourself to the filming conditions of any particular decade past, the world has changed too much and so have our brains. No one is ever going to make a proper 80's movie ever again, and that's fine because 30 years from now we'll all be looking back and decrying how all these damn young film kids are trying to ape the style of those pseudo-80's 2016 movies. Certain techniques were in vogue then, and certain techniques are in vogue now and that's what makes everything beautiful, even if we haven't realized why it is yet.



#103 bonzi_buddy

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:48 AM

EDIT: on second thought, i better edit my thoughts probably and then post.

but basically, the details don't end to tech - but also extent to the actual art performance itself.

lot of old art actually consists of ton of details... and not all details are logical or fit to the overal narrative
= lot of dumb topic -talk is really about how lot of art, media and vaporware... is in large part about how many of details within the media piece itself doesn't fit the overall narrative of the whole piece, but the effect might still be magical in the brain.

Example: lot of modern movies, videogames, etc have this kind of double-standard these days:

Standard 1. all the sceneries, events, details, all have and must follow the logic of the media piece =at all times=
hence three things:

A. mindless, autistical focus on wikipedia-level of inter-logicalities of the art piece [vs.] the actual magical, emotional effect of said art piece.

B. since most of art is at basest intentions and levels very crude shakespearean soap opera (often filtered through the male-female dynamics and drama) and are on level of basic social emotions...

the end result is boring mindless soap opera, often bringing nothing new to table. The roles are clear, the end-results predictable, the thought and dialogue filtered through this "social reality".

 

C. Minimization of "odd" or "out of place" moments, with the maximalism on "meaningfullness" of scenes and words. Kind of reinforcing the top-most point here, but think of it as lack of "dumb topicness" or raw sensory power to experience... or the "loudnessing" (music term)of the experience, making peaks lower and lower ends higher.

Example: Think of J.J. Abrahams movies, kind of example of modern movies - every line and meaning of a scenery or set is predictable in it's meaning. All actors spout out the lines but do not have raw surprise or energy to it. No odd look from actor, or out of place reactions from actors. No surprising change of dynamics or an spectrum of subtleties.

Standard 2. there is no details, no political agendas, no subtleties and dynamics when handing art.

don't be a party pooper - don't obsess to details.

yet just compare:
modern 5-o'clock shadow or full-beard handsome alpha-males ... shouting sternly empty, non-thought but condifent, non-intense platitudes (who obviously goes to gym to boot lol).
[VS.]
non-bearded, semi-normal if probably good looking regular man (who don't actively go to gym btw, almost nobody does in the film)... who actually expresses emotions and reactions on face... and *GASP* might even express UNCERTAINTY and intensity or focus in it's face??

i'm in particulary thinking here Star Wars final confrontation from original trilogy between luke and darth vader [VS.] the new trilogy's confrontation between obi-wan and anakin.
I feel it's a pretty good examples, since you can see the new trilogy -type of 2010's acting elsewhere in movies as well,
eg. lord of the rings movies or in modern superhero movies.

A simple example of Standard 2's just plain bullshit attitude in videogames would be the comparison between original Deus Ex and modern sequels.
for example, an actually realistic portrayal of real-life work-life social dynamics, or the way people were written there or rather BEHAVE towards hero over the span of the game. just watch longplays and see for yourself, i'm not gonna dissect that one over.

Bottom-line: art is actually complex... really complex. who would have thought?? AND: the more complex and detailed it gets, the MORE you need to focus on all details, not less... "no WAY!!!" screams the reader.

so... next time you feel too-cool-for-school to "obsess" over these "details" and love to point this out - please read the whole +200 page dumb topic in reference to refresh what we are talking about for past 4 years or so. kindest regards, bonzi buddy.



#104 bonzi_buddy

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 08:48 AM

also, I'm gonna disagree with that old man, in that old tech (the equipment or lack of details) don't always realize into good shit, you need your own discretion:

- Battleship Potemkin is still pretty boring, while some Walt Disney's adolescent - era cartoons made by others than his group have shockingly sharp, hella good and realized animation for it's time... you don't see that kind of shit often even to this day. point is: still good, still have something attractive in it, even if they ended to end-result by complete accident.

- bela bartok's atonal, modernist compositions are shit, yet his piano piece Op 18 Etude's is THE shit, really good fucking poop, diarrhea made of gold and nectar. 

- classical compositions from modernist era or later in general can be pretty boring, but oh boy, what if you put exact MIDI replicas of some of them through NES soundfonts from fruity loops? you are tripping at maximum +67% efficiency, n=1, subject had an orgasm and started speaking in tongues which is +2% better than previous result, placebo resulted in the termination of study executors so actual study is written by surviving assistants...

 

- a side note, not about techical equipment per say: star wars 70's technique of filming people muttering quietly in distance and walking for minutes without anything happening and without music (beginning of star wars 1 and 3)... against a backdrop of startling environment... works great in star wars movies, but not so hotly in say godard's films or other 70's films probably starring jack nicholson or robert redford lol.

 

and so forth and so forth



#105 A1A1inE8

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 12:32 PM

this is probably as offtopic as it gets, but reminds me..

 

- bela bartok's atonal, modernist compositions are shit, yet his piano piece Op 18 Etude's is THE shit, really good fucking poop, diarrhea made of gold and nectar.

 

this is more appropriate it seems.. quote from the abstract of "Móricz, K. (2006). The Untouchable: Bartók and the Scatological. Studia Musicologica Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae, 47(3/4), 321-336."

 

In his book about his father Peter Bartok told stories about the composer that had never seen print before. Most surprising perhaps for readers used to the image of the rigorous, disciplined, morally uncompromising Bartok were Peter Bartok's descriptions of the composer's childish, obscene jokes. Despite the abundance of documentary evidence, scholars kept an embarrassed silence about the scatological nature of Bartok's humor. Embarrassing though the topic might sound, its discussion can reveal important aspects of not only Bartok's personality but also his music.

 

Then there's Mozart:

 

Adults are not immune to the effects produced by scatological humor either. The most famous example in music is Mozart, whose letters to family members are littered with excremental language, spiced with sexual allusions: "blow into my behind. It's splendid food, may it do you good," he wrote to his cousin Basle. "Forgive my wretched writing," he wrote her in another letter,


but the pen is already worn to a shred,
and I've been shitting, so 'tis said,
nigh twenty-two years through the same old hole,
which is not yet frayed one whit,
though I've used it daily to shit,
and each time the muck with my teeth I've bit.

 

More gold from Mozart is in the wikipedia article "Mozart and Scatology": https://en.wikipedia...t_and_scatology

 

A few years ago I did manage to find the bartok pieces where some trobone/tuba parts were imitating fart sounds, but unfortunately I am unable to find them now..



#106 Ice Baby1

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 02:14 PM

JAmes Joyce, too.



#107 GoldFishBoy

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 04:48 AM

lot of old art actually consists of ton of details... and not all details are logical or fit to the overal narrative
= lot of dumb topic -talk is really about how lot of art, media and vaporware... is in large part about how many of details within the media piece itself doesn't fit the overall narrative of the whole piece, but the effect might still be magical in the brain.

This is actually a really cool observation that I hadn't considered before. In a way I think this actually makes things more realistic? Because that's how like, actual memory tends to work, at least for me. I'll remember specific details of, i don't know, how a cutting board was situated on the counter, or the specific order that the jackets in our closet happened to be hung up in, or what some rando in the grocery store is saying on the phone an isle over. Just things that have no reason to be relevant to what I'm happening to be doing, and frankly have no business dedicating space in my head to remember after all these years but my brain still just goes of and decides these random details are important to remember. I can't think of any specific examples from movies or shows at the moment at the moment but I'll be sure to be on the lookout for it.



#108 scoby

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 11:41 PM

 

at first I forgot the music was Colin Stetson and I thought it was Burning Star Core so I had a weird feeling I made this but had amnesia, or it was stolen from my brain or recnstructed via algorithms that scanned our old saltw posts



#109 Mope

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 10:22 PM

Oh shit this is about tv, "the boys" was pretty good.

Also the last twin peaks




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