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I Can't Be A Part Of This Anymore


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#21 Carrion Crow

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 07:47 AM

what have I become my sweetest friend?
everyone I know goes away in the end

#22 headphonics

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:06 AM

i can definitely understand what you mean about the circle jerking you are right

later buddy

so true *dshug*

#23 Frisky SKeleton

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:07 AM

http://www.shadowsky...om/Prequel.html

I USE Q'S INSTEQD OF Q'S


#24 dada

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 07:05 PM

Why'd you quote a post I made back in february?  That post wasn't even directed at you specifically!

I'm sorry if you stopped liking GW, but I don't really get why.  What's that "inflammatory attitude" you talk about?  The way you're describing it reminds me of when the Republicans claimed that Nancy Pelosi's speech caused the original bailout vote to not pass.


#25 Artis Leon Ivey Jr

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:55 AM

omeg what was he quoting anyway he didn't tell me.
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#26 rudy the red-beaked reindeer

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 04:34 AM

can I have your name after you leave?

#27 baseball19225

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:50 AM

this guy's sig is too big. bane his @ss. never le t him back in
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#28 GZ

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:53 PM

you are only going to lose audience for your game by not making people aware of it. are you actually saying that because you fear the elitists bashing your game, you won't even bother posting it at all? why do you give a shit what those people think? all you are doing is hiding the game from people who might find your game enjoyable.

a good game designer knows how to separate the good comments from the bad. you are acting like if people say bad things about your game you will be ruined and won't be able to make games any more. the most useful comments you can get when you make a game are about it's flaws, if you don't hear about what people didn't like your games aren't going to improve. this said i admit the usefulness of G&D comments are not very good, but you also have to be aware these people are not professionals and they are also your peers. i would probably say G&D's biggest problem is the lack of detailed commentary and most of it is "gr8 game" or "game sucks" without elaboration.

if you do not like the general attitude here this is fine, and you really don't have to post, but i don't know why you wouldn't want free advertising for your game. you said the word insecure, and this is probably your biggest problem. you are afraid that after 3 years of work people won't like your game. unfortunately this is the risk you take when doing something like this. there are rpg maker communites out there who will praise any game and give no negative constructive feedback, but this is not one of those places. i would prefer honesty (even though it is hard to find here) over candy coated replies any day.

also, gaming world is not a serious game development community no matter what anyone tells you. the problem is that the gap between a site like gaming world and a real independent gaming site is too large for RPG maker users unless they are very talented. so for someone who is somewhat serious about games, it can be hard to find a place to fit in.
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#29 Evangel

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:09 PM

This is another legitimate post which should be getting the attention of the admins, (who should be concerned that people are leaving the site and probably spreading negative remarks about GW on other places) but because of smart guys like evangel (and many that are going to come)  this will just derail and/or just quietly fall.


I actually legitimately share some of his sentiments, but I said it in kind of a smart ass way.  The fact people are afraid to post a game because they're afraid it'll turn into some crazy degrading joke topic is kind of sad.
keep posting...
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#30 dada

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:46 PM

omeg what was he quoting anyway he didn't tell me.

It was about Microsoft planning to buy Yahoo: http://www.gamingw.n...0340#msg1250340

Oh no!!


#31 Rowain

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 07:00 PM

Goodbye sir! Good luck in your future endeavours!
WHY SO SERIOUS HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

#32 Artis Leon Ivey Jr

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 07:18 PM

I actually legitimately share some of his sentiments, but I said it in kind of a smart ass way.  The fact people are afraid to post a game because they're afraid it'll turn into some crazy degrading joke topic is kind of sad.


it's also not true. hell one of his examples is as omeg pointed out, a yahoo buyout, NOT a game topic. the other is from a guy who trolls g&d constantly.

I mean, he fucked off even after I explained it to him because he must have felt posts like climbtree's where he calls everyone dorks were too harsh.

you don't need to bend over backwards to agree with someone about the state of gw when they're afraid of any negative posts.
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#33 Artis Leon Ivey Jr

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 07:24 PM

we also only see this kind of thing in g&d, a complete fear of harsh criticism. the guys in music creation actually BEG for harsh critique (other than rone) and Chainer throws his chair against the wall with every "looks good ^_^" post. but so many G&Ders are all "DONT BE MEAN...ITS JUST A HOBBY"
brian chemicals

#34 dom

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 09:19 PM

nooo - star wars

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#35 Vellfire

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 10:07 PM

Seriously most of the time G&D does nothing at all to help you grow as any sort of creator.  It is usually just "HEY GAME LOOKS GREAT".  Your game is a joke game that does nothing but use the word penis to make 12 year olds laugh?  LOOKS GREAT.  Your game features neopets as main characters?  LOOKS GREAT.  Your game is an FF7 remake with MS paint graphics?  LOOKS GREAT.  As soon as someone says anything constructive (hint: not negative, CONSTRUCTIVE, although sometimes it is both but as long as it is constructive you shouldn't care about the negativity because there is something helpful in there) they get jumped on for not just saying LOOKS GREAT.  We don't do shit to help (can't stress this word enough) gamemakers grow, we just keep them at the same crap level a lot of them are currently at.  You can start off making horrible crap and grow into someone really creative with great projects.  But as long as the majority of the G&D community just keeps saying everything is great when it blatantly isn't, no one is going to get better.  Indie games like Cave Story are put to the standards of commercial games, and (at least in Cave Story's case) are sometimes considered better than some commercial games.  So why don't we want more gamemakers to grow to this level?  Why don't we try to explain what is wrong with their games so they can fix them, and then they can someday create the next hot indie game?

Actually, I can answer that.  Because a lot of the gamemakers take everything as a hostile attack instead of as an important tool in learning.  Someone comes in and tells you something is wrong with your game?  Don't leave GW about it.  Think about what they said--just because not everyone says it doesn't mean no one else is thinking it.

And don't get offended over people saying "well move on from RPGMaker".  If you want people to stop saying that, then keep on trying to make something good in RPGMaker.  Listen to the criticism, take it into consideration, and make the best game you can.  If everyone did this then there would be quite a few solid, good games and people could take RPGMaker seriously.  The problem is that most of the people using it don't accept criticism and never LEARN from anything, and so they keep on churning out the same shit.

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#36 TFT

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 11:26 PM

in conclusion, can G&D stop being so awful. :fogetbackflip:

#37 Aten

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 11:32 PM

Seriously most of the time G&D does nothing at all to help you grow as any sort of creator.  It is usually just "HEY GAME LOOKS GREAT".  Your game is a joke game that does nothing but use the word penis to make 12 year olds laugh?  LOOKS GREAT.  Your game features neopets as main characters?  LOOKS GREAT.  Your game is an FF7 remake with MS paint graphics?  LOOKS GREAT.  As soon as someone says anything constructive (hint: not negative, CONSTRUCTIVE, although sometimes it is both but as long as it is constructive you shouldn't care about the negativity because there is something helpful in there) they get jumped on for not just saying LOOKS GREAT.


You have no clue what you're talking about, stop pretending that you do. If you think ANY CRAP gets passed as a "looks great", then visit the screenshot topic sometime.
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#38 Artis Leon Ivey Jr

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 11:50 PM

dude i did this with nemesis back in the day, the screenshot topic is one of the worst offenders.

like, okay, I really don't feel like hashing this out since the reason G&D is separate is to prevent this stuff, but take a look at the screenshot topic. I've never seen ANYONE criticize anything other than mapping issues. and that's fine! that's okay! sometimes maps need criticism of a technical variety.

but you're ignoring what velfarre is saying which isn't a lack of technical criticism (if you're missing a map, you'll know about it in like a minute) but creative criticism. I got jumped on for asking a guy somewhat politely (politely for me anyways which is probably like a habanero being dropped in vanilla pudding) why he chose to remake FF7 and spend so much effort on a system when he could make an original creation.

now I'm not saying Vanit (I think that's his name?) is symptomatic of G&D ideas or attitudes. he came from some other site I think. but what was bizarre was that he was not alone in defending his FF7 remake. people got angry that I suggested he make a fan game instead, thus preserving what work he'd done while expressing an original idea. this happens a lot in G&D; someone posts an idea that is quite honestly generic as shit, but if you call them on it, you'll get people, not even the original creator at times, who jump on YOU.

or our good pal bloody asura. dude threatens to sue someone, tells another person to die, lies about his credentials, and I still got jumped on for saying "maybe you should try again later when your name isn't associated with lying litigious douchebag"! that was in IGD but it doesn't take much thinking to realize the difference between the people criticizing Asura (who, once again, tried to sue us) and those who bizarrely chose to defend him because he was exercising some degree of effort.

so if you are using the screenshot topic as some example of criticism deflecting crap, you're ignoring that criticism is not confined to technical ability, but also encompasses creative ability. those who display a dearth of the latter tend to get away with it in G&D, where if they were posting in Music Creation or Graphic Arts they would not.
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#39 Aten

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 12:09 AM

I was basically countering velfarre's arguments that g&d does not take "crap", it has SOME standards, if you came in with bad mapping or sucky graphics, then you'd better at least have AWESOME gameplay or story else it doesn't stand much of a chance. (people are forgiving to bad gfx if other stuff is good)

And people DO actually criticize in the SS topic, some go so far as to EDIT YOUR STUFF ex1 to how they think it looks good ex2, and from what I see, SS topic is the best possible topic to go to if you're looking for feedback on your game graphically.


As for vanit, you see, he's remaking FF7, and he's claiming that this isn't another washed down rm2k3 game, that he's pulling all the stops. He posted a menu, and to the regular rpg maker who has no clue about advanced use of rm2k3, (combined with vanits use of phylormortis grade vocabulary-to make things sound more complex then they are) it is GODLY.

Thats the best way i can explain it.
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#40 Neophyte

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 12:35 AM

No, it's just a menu.
But I won't get too much into that. For how much attention that game is getting, it doesn't deserve that much. And if it takes you 3 months to make a menu of FF7, it will take you 10 years to make the game. I support the guy, but I know what the outcome is going to be already.

But anyway, I do agree that the SS thread does it's job at helping people. There isn't much to comment on other than graphics in a topic like that, though some of the RM tileset rule things people spew out is a little ridiculous. I do know what the guy is talking about, but it's just something you have to get used to. There are a few intimidating people out there, which is probably why he felt that way. He has to understand that there is a learning curve for developing games, and if he doesn't get out there and look for constructive criticism, he'll never improve or get his game out there for people to enjoy. So basically what GZ said.




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