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You can see into the future....as can all of us...amazins...


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#1 HL

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:26 AM

http://news.yahoo.co...sionsdiscovered

[hide=for da lazy]
Key to All Optical Illusions Discovered Jeanna Bryner
Senior Writer
LiveScience.com
Mon Jun 2, 9:50 AM ET



Humans can see into the future, says a cognitive scientist. It's nothing like the alleged predictive powers of Nostradamus, but we do get a glimpse of events one-tenth of a second before they occur.

And the mechanism behind that can also explain why we are tricked by optical illusions.


Researcher Mark Changizi of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York says it starts with a neural lag that most everyone experiences while awake. When light hits your retina, about one-tenth of a second goes by before the brain translates the signal into a visual perception of the world.


Scientists already knew about the lag, yet they have debated over exactly how we compensate, with one school of thought proposing our motor system somehow modifies our movements to offset the delay.


Changizi now says it's our visual system that has evolved to compensate for neural delays, generating images of what will occur one-tenth of a second into the future. That foresight keeps our view of the world in the present. It gives you enough heads up to catch a fly ball (instead of getting socked in the face) and maneuver smoothly through a crowd. His research on this topic is detailed in the May/June issue of the journal Cognitive Science,


Explaining illusions


That same seer ability can explain a range of optical illusions, Changizi found.


"Illusions occur when our brains attempt to perceive the future, and those perceptions don't match reality," Changizi said.


Here's how the foresight theory could explain the most common visual illusions - geometric illusions that involve shapes: Something called the Hering illusion, for instance, looks like bike spokes around a central point, with vertical lines on either side of this central, so-called vanishing point. The illusion tricks us into thinking we are moving forward, and thus, switches on our future-seeing abilities. Since we aren't actually moving and the figure is static, we misperceive the straight lines as curved ones.


"Evolution has seen to it that geometric drawings like this elicit in us premonitions of the near future," Changizi said. "The converging lines toward a vanishing point (the spokes) are cues that trick our brains into thinking we are moving forward - as we would in the real world, where the door frame (a pair of vertical lines) seems to bow out as we move through it - and we try to perceive what that world will look like in the next instant."


Grand unified theory


In real life, when you are moving forward, it's not just the shape of objects that changes, he explained. Other variables, such as the angular size (how much of your visual field the object takes up), speed and contrast between the object and background, will also change.


For instance, if two objects are about the same distance in front of you, and you move toward one of the objects, that object will speed up more in the next moment, appear larger, have lower contrast (because something that is moving faster gets more blurred), and literally get nearer to you compared with the other object.


Changizi realized the same future-seeing process could explain several other types of illusions. In what he refers to as a "grand unified theory," Changizi organized 50 kinds of illusions into a matrix of 28 categories. The results can successfully predict how certain variables, such as proximity to the central point or size, will be perceived.


Changizi says that finding a theory that works for so many different classes of illusions is "a theorist's dream."


Most other ideas put forth to explain illusions have explained one or just a few types, he said.
The theory is "a big new player in the debate about the origins of illusions," Changizi told LiveScience. "All I'm hoping for is that it becomes a giant gorilla on the block that can take some punches."
[/hide]

This is fucking amazing and while still just a theory basically makes a lot of sense.  Even if 1/10th of a second isn't much (damn...Nicholas Cage can see more than we can....fuckin Next....) that's still PRETTY COOL.

what are your guy's thoughts on this?

It's pretty crazy imo.

I wonder if there is some way to possibly manipulate it into longer durations or something, if true.

#2 GZ

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:50 AM

how is this seeing into the future? maybe i am reading this wrong, but as i understand here, all that's happening is your brain is doing CRAZY STUFF to try and predict what you will see next. they seem to say this pretty clearly by saying this is how we are fooled by optical illusions, since our brain is wrongly predicting what will happen and causes us to see the illusion instead.
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#3 otomon

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:00 AM

Yeah mang once I hit up so much chop I was all crazy n shit! I could see the end of the world n stuff! True story mang! Shit for real yo.

#4 HL

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:13 AM

how is this seeing into the future? maybe i am reading this wrong, but as i understand here, all that's happening is your brain is doing CRAZY STUFF to try and predict what you will see next. they seem to say this pretty clearly by saying this is how we are fooled by optical illusions, since our brain is wrongly predicting what will happen and causes us to see the illusion instead.


Well, obviously, the title of the thread is kind of a joke, but 1/10th of a second of a prediction of the future (that is usually accurate, except for illusions)

#5 Cardinal Ximenez

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:06 AM

I adamantly hope that this theory will not be co-opted by panderers of "New Age" thought. But it almost certainly will be.

#6 GirlBones

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:08 AM

i wonder if drug-induced hallucinations are related to this
boop oop a doop

#7 Swordfish

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 08:40 AM

i wonder if drug-induced hallucinations are related to this

:fogetmmh:
*goes off to a friend for some hallucagenics to test theroy*

#8 Vellfire

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 12:58 PM

Wait, but wouldn't it be seeing into the present?

It's not that we're seeing the future, our brain is just...basically in the PAST.  There's just a lag, so we're really just seeing what's going on late.  Our eyes are the only ones seeing into the future, but it's just the "future" to our brains.

Even still it's a neat study.

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#9 Evangel

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:02 PM

Definitely doesn't involve seeing into the future, but if there was some technology that could remove the 1/10th of a second barrier, it could have some interesting applications.  A soldier or jet fighter or boxer could use that extra 1/10 of a second for an extra edge against their opponents.  While it doesn't seem like much, in a knee-jerk situation, that reaction time can make all the difference.  Of course, I would imagine one would have to take a lot of time to get used to the removal of that barrier.
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#10 Ragnar

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 02:54 AM

So wait does it mean we're living in an illusion

#11 Luvdisc

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 01:31 PM

Wait, but wouldn't it be seeing into the present?

It's not that we're seeing the future, our brain is just...basically in the PAST.  There's just a lag, so we're really just seeing what's going on late.  Our eyes are the only ones seeing into the future, but it's just the "future" to our brains.

Even still it's a neat study.


No.. No.. No...

According to the study, our brains are rooted into the PRESENT, not the Past... We're not really "seeing" into the future, our brains are trying to predict what will occur in the next tenth of a second, in order to compensate for the lag of sight.

You seriously need to re-read the article...

#12 bonzi_buddy

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 02:09 PM

Sounds like our brains actively calculate the possible results of the on-going events and variables so yeah, definitely not SEEING INTO THE FUTURE.

Wait, but wouldn't it be seeing into the present?

It's not that we're seeing the future, our brain is just...basically in the PAST.  There's just a lag, so we're really just seeing what's going on late.  Our eyes are the only ones seeing into the future, but it's just the "future" to our brains.

Even still it's a neat study.


That could be another neat way to think about it but there is one thing which doesn't really apply to that: what about the situations where the body reacts to e.g. incoming ball? Doesn't the brains quickly calculate the possible hazardous result of the event and then -

No wait, in these situations, i recall the signal bypasses some processing procedures and goes straight to the spine, as the "AVOID THE INCOMING X THING -->DODGE" is somewhat of an basic universal instinct!

... Yeah, that is actually a sensible way to perceive to thing, yeah. I must urge though that this

Definitely doesn't involve seeing into the future, but if there was some technology that could remove the 1/10th of a second barrier, it could have some interesting applications.  A soldier or jet fighter or boxer could use that extra 1/10 of a second for an extra edge against their opponents.  While it doesn't seem like much, in a knee-jerk situation, that reaction time can make all the difference.  Of course, I would imagine one would have to take a lot of time to get used to the removal of that barrier.

is no way to understand this thing.
That would basically mean you remove their sense for predicting things, which can be VERY catastrophical for pilots. How can you react to an incoming attack e.g. missile quickly if you don't have any natural/learnt instinct of "pull the wheel quickly"? I mean, think about of your basic driving accidents: how do you think it helps anything if you don't pull the wheel/push the breaks when in danger (sudden appear of a ledge/obstacle/car)?

The only way to really make that difference you are talking about in the heat of a battle (rolleyes) is to speed up the predicting process.

#13 Evangel

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 05:23 PM

That would basically mean you remove their sense for predicting things, which can be VERY catastrophical for pilots. How can you react to an incoming attack e.g. missile quickly if you don't have any natural/learnt instinct of "pull the wheel quickly"? I mean, think about of your basic driving accidents: how do you think it helps anything if you don't pull the wheel/push the breaks when in danger (sudden appear of a ledge/obstacle/car)?

The only way to really make that difference you are talking about in the heat of a battle (rolleyes) is to speed up the predicting process.


Yes, but if we could "see faster", wouldn't our brains still predict, just 1/10th of a second sooner?
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#14 Awakening

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 09:22 PM

This has more to do with light and less to do with time...
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#15 Xeno|Soft

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:26 PM

this IS seeing into the future, however it is not how you want it to be explained. If you ever thought about "seeing into the future" you always have this fairy tale concept in mind (lol, portal---time travel)

The only logical way to see in the future (for now) is calculating variables and making a prediction based on those results.

So if you want to put it as "the brain doesn't see into the future, it just makes predictions that are 99.9% of the time right" then go ahead, but the brain was still able to SEE into the future do to its insane calculations. Just because you can explain it, doesn't make it invalid.

#16 Awakening

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 11:19 PM

So how one would use this study to extrapolate the 1/10 second to say...60 seconds?
It's a starter, but doesn't seem to do much functionally.
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#17 Vellfire

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 11:24 PM

this IS seeing into the future, however it is not how you want it to be explained. If you ever thought about "seeing into the future" you always have this fairy tale concept in mind (lol, portal---time travel)

The only logical way to see in the future (for now) is calculating variables and making a prediction based on those results.

So if you want to put it as "the brain doesn't see into the future, it just makes predictions that are 99.9% of the time right" then go ahead, but the brain was still able to SEE into the future do to its insane calculations. Just because you can explain it, doesn't make it invalid.


Yeah but it's not the future.  It's the present.  You aren't seeing things that have yet to happen, you're just seeing things ON TIME instead of late.

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#18 Ragnar

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 11:57 PM

I'm still confused... is what I'm seeing right now actually the PREDICTION so then we're never actually quite seeing reality? (well according to hippies/philosophy majors you can never really see reality anyway but I mean what most people mean by reality ok)

Edit: Does it have anything to do with this too http://en.wikipedia....usion_threshold

#19 Kezay

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 06:57 AM

Kind of hard for me to grasp this... it sounds amazing of course, but it's like, even if it's the result of the brain predicting what you see 1/10 of a second ahead of time as accurately as it does just seems mind boggling.  In some ways, it makes more sense to me on the idea that if you're in an area you've seen before then your brain can kind of automatically assume what comes up next because you've seen it before, but then I get to the idea of what happens if you're blindfolded, put into an unfamiliar place and then the blindfold comes off.  How would the brain perceive that?

Then again, maybe I'm overthinking and in turning totally missing the concept here.

#20 Lars

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 12:21 PM

I'm still confused... is what I'm seeing right now actually the PREDICTION so then we're never actually quite seeing reality? (well according to hippies/philosophy majors you can never really see reality anyway but I mean what most people mean by reality ok)

No, things like text HAS to be rooted in reality because there's no way to predict what is written etc. I don't know why you're pulling this science fiction bullshit because it's not really that sick.

Things like what's in the corner of your eye when you turn your head also has to be persepted before it becomes part of your vision. This thing only applies to things you've already seen and are in a changing form (moving objects or people you are trying to recognize etc)




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